War: What Is It Good For?

For the 40th episode, Dan, Suzana, and Flavio return to Atlanta, Georgia, to celebrate seven years of Spiritist Conversations. After a trip down memory lane, they engage in a timely conversation about war- of all kinds- with guest Edward Christie from New York.

Transcript
Dan Assisi:

Welcome to Spiritist Conversations number 40. I think that's the number, right? We believe so. We believe so. A show where we sit down with friends, literally today, to talk about the world through an informal, unscripted, and unplugged way. And I am Dan, we have Flavio, we have Susanna, and we have our friend Edward here today, and we're going to introduce him in a little bit. But before we do that, we just want to go back a little bit to our origin story because today, as you can see, if you're watching us. We are winging this as we often do, but why are we doing that?

Flavio Zanetti:

I was going to say, what changed? So we always do it. So, but the reason why we're doing this is here is because we are from, we are in Atlanta, Georgia right now, where everything started exactly seven years ago, the whole universe started seven years ago, our universe, our universe, or the universe of spiritist conversations started here in Atlanta, Georgia. Seven years ago,

Suzana Simões:

what do we remember from that day?

Flavio Zanetti:

We were in a much better place than this. We had a table. That is true. We had chairs, Uhhuh, and uh, now we're just winging it

Dan Assisi:

Today. We don't have chairs or tables. We're couches.

Flavio Zanetti:

Just couches and the chair for friend Edward. And, uh, here we are, walk into

Suzana Simões:

that room and start talking about something.

Flavio Zanetti:

Let's talk about Spiritism and then all of a sudden. Why don't we make

Dan Assisi:

this a podcast? Daniel Acosta,

Suzana Simões:

you guys. There was no podcast at the time, I'm sorry. Why don't we make it into a conversation? A conversation, yeah. Podcast

Flavio Zanetti:

was just starting back then, I think.

Dan Assisi:

No, I don't think so. And the reason why was because Whenever we met at different conferences, we would end up chatting afterwards and have so much fun. So, I decided to buy a microphone, which I had never really used before. We brought it, took it in the computer. We recorded our first episode because you guys couldn't run away from that room, I think. I think I kind of like locked us in or something. You guys were so nice about it. And I also remember this. We recorded a whole hour of the thing. Only to find out that it did not record, so we had

Flavio Zanetti:

to do everything again. Again. That I remember. That you remember? That I remember, yes. You

Dan Assisi:

remembered every word, I'm sure. If you ever listen to episode number one, um, just let you know that the first pass was way better than the second pass that we did, which you all need to listen.

Flavio Zanetti:

Amateurs. I can't believe that. But

Dan Assisi:

what I think is really exciting and I'm thankful for, Um, obviously I'm very thankful to making new friends along the way like Edward today. We're going to introduce him in a little bit, but I'm also very thankful to Flavia and Susanna who have agreed to embark on this crazy journey when we do this podcast that became later video. Um, and it has had over 40, 000 plays. At this point in time, which is pretty cool. Almost 50, 000. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. You know, I got to look at the numbers, but, um, clearly you can do that. You can see that we don't do a great job of promoting this thing or keeping track of how far we get, but we do have tons of fun. And so thank you, Flavia and Susanna for, for agreeing to, to learn with me, to teach me, to share your perspectives on things. And it's been seven years. It's kind of crazy.

Suzana Simões:

Unbelievable, right? I would never, I think. Pot that would go that far. No. That we would keep doing for so many years and thank you for buying the microphone. You know it's funny

Dan Assisi:

enough. It made it all possible. Yeah, and you know had I known I would have borrowed one of Flavio's microphones because I think he had the same microphone that I Bought. Yeah, right. Yeti,

Flavio Zanetti:

right? It was a Yeti. Yeah, I think it was one of those. But,

Dan Assisi:

uh, but anyways the the premise has not changed and the idea is we sit down with friends really In an unplugged way with no pre conceived like speech or talk or points. And we just share with each other our perspectives on a particular topic.

Flavio Zanetti:

It's almost like having a conversation at a, you know, at a restaurant or running each other down the middle of the street, grab a cup of coffee and then end up talking,

Dan Assisi:

right? Yeah, Spiritist Conversations because I don't know if you remember this. No. But people would sometimes after our sessions come back and say, Hey. Like, you know, from the audience, are you guys going to have the conversation again? Right. And so we're like, hold on a second. If they're asking where we're going to be, like, you know, maybe we record this. Maybe there's more people who actually want to listen to it. Right. And we were very original with our name. As you can tell the marketing department really was. You know, I work. M. I. A.

Flavio Zanetti:

Spiritist Conversation. Marketing department do not exist. Still doesn't exist, by the way. You had a low budget.

Dan Assisi:

As you can see, if you're watching us, very low budget, but we know that's not what matters at the end of the day. It's really the opportunity to be together and engage with topics that could benefit from a spiritual perspective. And

Flavio Zanetti:

along the way, make new friends. Speaking of new friends, Edgar Christie. Hello, welcome, welcome to, welcome to our family.

Dan Assisi:

And we are here in Atlanta again for another conference. And today I had the pleasure of hearing Susana and Flavio and Edward speak. And by the way, um, he's going to share that with you, but Edward is also fantastic piano player and musician. Um, and we had a lovely time and really harkened back to the beginning, but Edward, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background for folks who are watching and, or listening to us. Well,

Edward Christie:

how far do you want me to go back?

Flavio Zanetti:

Holy! Since you were born.

Dan Assisi:

Since you were born.

Suzana Simões:

Um,

Edward Christie:

well I met Sonya, my wife. She was the one who introduced me to Spiritism. And I really took to it. And so we've been studying together from, well we've been married 26 years now. It's more like, uh, 28 years that I've been studying with her. And, uh, yeah, and we were lucky to find an English language spiritist center in New York. And there are a number of them, actually, now, so that, that's, that's been a great thing. Uh, there, and, and in New York, there, there are actually a number of them that are exclusively English ling, English speaking. which is really nice. There's a lot of outreach there and, uh, people are really dedicated. I, I, I, I really, all I can say is I really took to the whole idea of Spiritism and it's a topic of conversation in our house. We, we open up the books, we find things to talk about, uh, over breakfast coffee and things. So it, it, we keep it alive very, very much in the house.

Suzana Simões:

Wonderful. Which group do you, uh, are you part of

Dan Assisi:

in New York? Um,

Edward Christie:

right now I'm a part of IESS, the Inner Enlightenment Spiritist Society. Mm hmm. And, um, yeah, we, we run the Joana de Angelis study, which is a weekly study that we do. There, so right now we're studying the psychology of gratitude book. Fantastic. Yeah. It's a wonderful book. We've gone through the existential conflicts Uh, and, and what was, I was trying to remember the other one. It's so long ago

Dan Assisi:

now. Yeah, and the spirit Durana Jandil is, is an incredible spirit who has a wonderful books and teachings generally centered around psychology. Right. Eventually we have in our, in our plan to do an episode on her so that folks can have some context, but Um, it's really

Edward Christie:

deep work. Yes, and especially the psychology of gratitude. There's, we, we had to learn a lot about Carl Jung and all of his ideas in order to, to really understand. Of course, we're all amateurs at it, which is good because the pressure isn't on, um, for us to learn. So we all learn together. And yeah, it's, it's been, it's been fun for that reason, fun, maybe that was the wrong word. Rewarding. Rewarding, I think.

Dan Assisi:

And thanks for joining us because we might need a little bit of that psychological insight to make sense of these difficult times that we live in. Um, we were chatting beforehand, what should we talk about today? And I think episode 40. is about war because we know that we have these challenges going on around the globe. Just a couple of days ago, we also have the situation with Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Israel and everybody is really concerned about that on top of Ukraine and all the different things that are happening in Africa. So, You know, we figured that we could probably name this, we'll figure it out. But maybe we named this one, war was what, why, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Do we even need it? Do we even need it, right? So we maybe want to talk a little bit about, hey, What's this war stuff, why are we singing now, and how do we navigate that stuff? Anybody want to jump in? Does that sound good to you?

Flavio Zanetti:

Sounds good. Sounds alright. I, no, please go ahead. No, one

Edward Christie:

of the things that, uh, that surprised me as I was reading was the idea that, um, well, in this case it was Israel wanting to totally destroy Hamas, which, uh, and I thought, how do you? Destroy an idea. I mean, you're destroying people hoping that no one will be around that has those ideas anymore. And you see this, you saw this after 9 11 was the same. Um, you see these same ideas repeating, and, you know, you can't kill an idea, really. It just gets passed from one generation to another, and, so there's a lot of stuff we talk about Joan of Angelus. There's a lot in the collective shadow that people are working out. Um, certainly that, that area of the world has been under conflict for centuries, for ages. Thousands of years. And there's something being worked out there. Uh, whatever, well, we could speculate on what that is, but there is definitely something being worked out there and, and the idea of just destroying and hoping that that's going to solve the problem doesn't seem, it seems to be misguided to me.

Suzana Simões:

Short sighted to say

Dan Assisi:

the least. Right. It's what we've been doing forever, right? As a, as a humanity. I mean, the trick now is that you have a state fighting a non state, right? So, you know, Hamas is not even a country. So it becomes really persnickety, this idea that you can win the war against somebody who is not even officially recognized as a government state piece, right? So but I think my point is, war evolves and no matter what we throw at it, it still comes back because there's something else that's being worked out that we haven't quite figured out. And it seems like these are moments where things are bubbling up everywhere.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah, but I think if, if you look at, it's, it's, I, do you guys think that we'll ever be able to understand what goes on in, for example, in that conflict, in that location, that part of the world? Or even between Russia and Ukraine and we're so far removed from that, but all of a sudden if you look at everybody, all of a sudden everybody became war, you know, experts or Ukraine experts or Russia experts or, you know, why are we doing this as a society? Why

Suzana Simões:

is that happening? Yeah. And I think, I think to your point, uh, Flavio, we, we, you know, as a spiritist. Um, because, okay, we're talking about these more recent wars, but war has been going on, right? So I don't think our intent today is to narrow, zoom in into a war, but I think it's to recognize that the world has been in a state of war. There are many wars going on, sometimes wars that don't get as much. Uh, time on TV and I think recognize that the way we receive the news is always one narrow bias, bias, um, approach to things. And we have jumped into conclusions. And as you said, become experts and giving sentences and making judgments. And in ways, as we do that with the war and with anything and everything, the realization that we are not necessarily helping to change the state of things. Because every time that you are biased towards one side or another, I think you lose sight of empathy and seeing. Everyone as human beings

Flavio Zanetti:

use a very strong and important words. Susanna empathy, empathy only works if it's present on both sides, you cannot, you cannot be empathetic only with one part of the world. We have to be empathetic with the entire world. How do we do that as spiritists?

Dan Assisi:

How do we get there? And I think there's also a distinction, right? I think that we can still say that specific actions, whatever they are, because we're not talking about specific actions. They might be perhaps not as right or wrong and others, right? I have two kids, for instance. I love both the same and sometimes one of them beats the other one up, right? Or does something and that's wrong, but doesn't mean that I am going to just focus on that action and say that's a bad kid. I think that what I really like about what you're saying, Susana, is sure that regardless of who started it, or who's at fault for that particular reason, there is an underlying tension and challenges that we have not been able to resolve. And whether you call that arrogance or, you know, whatever it is that you want to do, you should say like, we're going to go physical on this thing because I am not going to yield. I'm right. You're wrong. And I'm just going to go over you because they're more powerful than you are. That's a very human thing, right? And we're going to let our fighting do the talking because we cannot agree. Or I think just, or maybe I just simply think that I don't even want to talk to you because I think I'm stronger. I'm just going to pummel you and do it. Right. But that behavior is, I think is the challenging piece, right? Because Earlier today, we were having a conversation as well, and we were equating, and I think maybe we can pick that up, is that that kind of thinking that we see out in the world, and we think it's like Ukraine and Russia and Palestine and Israel, yes, that too, but that also happens in our homes, right? That also happens in our streets and our neighbors. So we have this inability to figure things out that escalates, right? Either to a fist fight in your neighborhood or, you know, slaps in your house or, or, or hurtful words in your house to missiles and airplanes in countries and, and that is the difficult piece, right? Sometimes that we don't see that we are, we're feeding. This kind of thought process on that. We need to change that.

Flavio Zanetti:

How do we change that? What's the mechanism that's going to allow us to change that common thought? I have. I have an idea. Go on. Imagine. Imagine he has an

Dan Assisi:

idea for once. He's going to start playing devil's advocate all the time

Flavio Zanetti:

asking questions. If you follow us, you're going to see that I always play devil's advocate in some of the comments. But now let me just throw my first idea. And if you

Dan Assisi:

don't follow

Flavio Zanetti:

us, why not? Exactly. You're missing out. You're totally missing out. Hit that subscribe button on

Dan Assisi:

YouTube. Um, do the podcasting on whatever podcast.

Flavio Zanetti:

Subscribe to whatever podcast tool that you use. SoundCloud, we're available in every single, you know, form. What I was going to say is, thanks to Spiritism, we have knowledge about reincarnation. So, everything that we do There's a consequence, correct? Who would be, without making any predictions, if those actions are causing harm on others, we're responsible for those actions. How are we going to fix those actions, or repent and correct those actions in the future? So it's very likely that in this life, I'm born in one location of the world, In the next life, I may be born in a different place or different part of the world, but imagine if I am in conflict or I was in conflict with that part of the world, then I'll be born in the next life.

Dan Assisi:

And regardless of whether you're born, right? The whole thing of like, you started it. It's not an argument, right? It's a very juvenile thing. Well, I beat Susanna up, but she started it, right? Like, at what point does this also stop, right? Who's going to be the adult in the room and say, yeah, what you did wasn't great? But I'm not going to come back and pummel you. And I think that this is very, you know, I want folks to hear that I get that is very hard for us to understand that at a national level, right? Because there's pride and there is fear, safety, and all those things coming to place. But at some point in time, as a, as a race, right? As humanity, we've got to figure it out. For me, Flavio, I agree with you. I think that reincarnation is the thing that at least helps me. Like figure things out a little bit, because if we don't solve this now, we're going to have to come back and do exactly, and I think I got a hunch that we've been doing this for a couple of centuries,

Flavio Zanetti:

right? So one part, we're in this part of the, uh, the, the conflict. Another part, we're in that part of the conflict or in this life from here, that life from there. So why do I make sense of it? How do I make

Suzana Simões:

sense of it? So we have to, um, and this is a, an incredible opportunity for us to, for us who consider ourselves Christians, right, to ask what is it that we have learned from the gospel, from the way Jesus, um, act while he was, uh, with us that we can take home and we can, uh, put into practice. So, it's just very incredible and challenging that he came to take love to another level when he invited us to love our enemies. And the gospel is very clear because it says, it doesn't mean you're going to bring the enemy into your house, but it means that you are not going, you're going to refrain yourself from harming the enemy, from retaliation, and so how can we point fingers and blame and accuse governments and countries when, going back to what Dan said, right? In our own homes, in our daily lives. We continue to embrace the law, the old law of an eye for an eye, right? So it is exactly, we are being invited to be so disgusted by the, the current situation that it's almost like the, the life is telling us, Hey, can you realize that this way of living where we are nurturing and feeding hate? We'll just lead to the destruction of everyone. It's not bringing any good. So we are actually invited to, to grow up, to leave those teenager's years and to understand that we need, at some point, one sign needs to rise above, needs to introduce something different. We are invited to be the, the, the end of this vicious cycle of hatred of retaliation of an eye for an eye and this invitation has been over there for us for over 2000 years and again I think we need to take individual responsibility for what is happening in the world. See, the thing is that it's not a Palestinian or Israeli or Russian or Ukrainian, it's everyone's problem, it's everyone's business and we need to take personal responsibility for what is happening by trying You know, making a difference in our day-to-Day

Dan Assisi:

lives. Yes. Because we seem to forget this. He's enlightened right now. Yes. I'm getting the light. You feeling? Are you praying it over there? I'm getting the light. Got it.

Flavio Zanetti:

The uh, yes, I feel it.

Dan Assisi:

I can feel it. Yeah. I'm gonna set you up. It's coming

Flavio Zanetti:

down. Set you up for a second. It's coming, but now, now I'm gonna play my role that I play all the

Dan Assisi:

time. Yes. But hold on before you do that really quick. Alright, go ahead. He was gonna say something, say, I wanna say yes to all she said, and I think the point is. We fantasize this idea that countries fight countries, right? But it's really people. Yeah. Yeah, right? It's somebody with a certain mentality and a mindset that came to power within that country or a group of people and they have carried out their personal of Dealing with the world into the national level and because they have that platform they took that action so I think that we feel like these are complex things, but it's people deciding to have wars and On behalf of their countries with other people. So if we can work on people and I, I'm going to be a little bit jaded here and say, you know, the people who are in power right now, we're not fixing those people. It's not going to happen, but can we work on our kids? Can we work on ourselves so that we know how to deal with conflict? We are more accepting so that we can figure our stuff out before we get into levels of power. Right? Where we are just repeating the cycle that we

Flavio Zanetti:

see now. I think even before dealing with conflict, I think what we can do as parents is teaching our kids to look at the differences, embrace those differences, and not look at those differences from a many cases, you know, a perspective that if it's not like me, therefore it must be wrong. Because there's so much, so many differences out there in the world. That if we embrace inclusion since early ages, there's so many pictures I've seen. One that really touched me a lot was a picture of two kids, two boys, one Palestinian, one Israeli. You can see from their heads, hugging each other. Their backs, you can only see their backs. Because kids, they don't have an issue with each other. That's learned behavior, right? It's a learned behavior. It's a thought. It's a thought behavior, learned behavior that happens afterwards. But if we teach our kids to be strong, to embrace differences, right, to go out there and help each other, hopefully the future. Of our world, it would be a different place.

Edward Christie:

Yeah, but that requires for the parents to have that awareness, because, uh, there's a saying, how you do anything is how you do everything. So if in the house, just among family members or neighbors or who you work with, you're fighting, that is, that's, that's an indication. Yeah, it won't, it won't be contained within the house. It will leak out to

Suzana Simões:

everything. And that brings, um, the topic of the importance of healing. Yes. As a, as a primary cell of society where, you know, we need to, because we're always seeking for short term solutions. But when it comes to that, I think there's only a long term solution, and the long term solution is the education of the soul. Right. Is the introduction of the concepts of the gospel, of the concepts of immortality. So we really have to alphabetize our humanity here on this planet. We have to. Um, again, uh, ourselves as adults, our children, the more that we can become true immortalists, in other words, bring immortality to anything and everything that we do. That's a long term solution because when we are truly under the immortalist paradigm, things change, things change, things change, right?

Dan Assisi:

Because war makes sense from a materialist perspective, right? Because I go over there and I kill you and I think it's over. Yeah, from a materialistic perspective, I think I won and I solved the problem. Little do we know. Little do we know, or actually, lots do we know, right? Nowadays, after 160 years, for instance, of Spiritism, where we have been learning about mediumship and the interchange between worlds, which has always taken place. But with the mediums book we got more like a treatise that's more Democratic anybody can learn about mediumship they want to from that we know that we go on I think it's very important at this point and if you go on if I go on When I kill you our troubles are not over

Flavio Zanetti:

So are you suggesting we have the intelligence to create, you know, weapons and all those things? We have the emotional intelligence to control our actions, but are we missing a spiritual intelligence?

Dan Assisi:

Well, I would say, I think that's a beautiful distinction you make, but I'm, I'm, I might like, I don't know, the jury is out on the emotional intelligence. I don't think we

Flavio Zanetti:

can control our actions. Maybe emotional intelligence are not there yet. Yeah. But I mean, if we take this to the next level. In a way that, hey, you can kill your enemy now, but maybe next you're going to go back as the enemy.

Dan Assisi:

Well, yeah, but I think that's my point is, would we behave this way if I knew, like, I'm going to pick on poor Edward. Like, if I go and kill Edward, right, but would I do that if I knew that once he is, his physical body's dead, he may come after me in the spiritual world, or he may reincarnate. Like, would I think twice? Is that a strong enough reason for me to start to double think and say, You know what? This whole killing thing, it is not the same It ain't gonna work. to this problem because I might kill you now, but then you can come back and, uh, you know, kind of try to kill me next time or try to harm me from the other side kind of thing, right? We know this happens. Topic for another conversation. But I wonder if that is enough and that's the beginning of You know what? I think it's the beginning. We can do this because it never ends. It

Flavio Zanetti:

never ends. I think it's the beginning. That awareness of the spiritual, you know, beings that we are. We're not physical beings with a spirit. We're spiritual beings in a body, in a physical body. That means I'm in this body right now, in the next life I'm in a different body, or even in between lives that I have no physical body per se, I'm still in contact with you, with you and anybody else. There's still the connections. Emotional connections, affinity and whatnot. So, killing is not the solution. War is never the solution.

Edward Christie:

Well, as Daniel says, um, you know, that, that is the lowest level, what you're suggesting. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to suffer in the end. So, what you're doing is, uh, operating from fear, which is something. It's the beginning of something, right? It's the lowest level. You know, the highest would be Love. I wouldn't kill this person because I see their value. I see them as a child of God, but we probably can't do that.

Dan Assisi:

At our level of selfishness, we're still very much worried about what's in it for me. And the thou shall not kill. Right? Is the beginning, because thou shalt get in trouble, is the beginning of, if you're not here yet, all the way to the top, if you don't have that empathy yet, you've got to start at the lowest level.

Edward Christie:

Right. And I think what Susanna said was reminding me, uh, because we're both talking about family, and being a parent is a mission. Our mission, for most of us, certainly here, is not to resolve the issue. In the Ukraine, or in the Gaza Strip, or anything like that, our mission is, as parents, and to teach our children, um, A different way. Yes. So, you know, we can, we can make our focus, we can have an opinion about what goes on in the world, and forget what we're, what we're really meant to do here. To, to resolve, to, to fulfill our, our mission as a

Dan Assisi:

parent. Well, now that we solved the world's problems.

Suzana Simões:

We just did. I just want to, um, before coming to the final solution, uh, go on on, uh, what you were saying. And bring one more aspect, because I do think that The understanding that, you know, not only life does not end, but all the repercussions that come with, uh, healing or suicide and, and, and things like that, um, You know, operating from a place of, uh, fear and, and understanding. I think there's more and, and, and I, like you're saying, um, love, right? I think that we have to really commit ourselves to learn to love and learn to love. By that, I mean that we are still. Loving the ones who are like exactly like just like us. Yeah. So I like the idea of respect being love with worth associated with work. In other words, you think differently than me. We may not agree, but the fact that you think differently, or perhaps you behave differently, does not diminish you. You remain someone who is worth it. Worth it of belonging, worth it of love, of recognition, of being seen, right? So, a lot of times we'll say to someone, Oh yeah, I respect you, but deep inside, Deep inside, the feeling is, well, but,

Dan Assisi:

you

Suzana Simões:

know, you don't know any better, and I'm better than you, that feeling, so, you know, that is, so that is something very basic because the, the consequences, the way that this unfolds is, um, when people feel that they are not valued as human beings, you know, a lot of times what triggers and generates is, Aggression and hostility is shame. People feel deeply humiliated. And that is a lot of times what's going to bring that anger, destructive anger, because they can't bear, they cannot bear the feeling of being so diminished, oppressed, you know? So I think that here lies the incredible spiritual work challenge ahead of us as humanity, you know, to really invest. And again, going back. This starts within our homes because a lot of times education is done through humiliation. Our kids are humiliated in the way we speak to them, in the way we address them. So it's, it's just, uh, it feels a little bit overwhelming right now as I'm speaking.

Dan Assisi:

It does. Help me out. It does, right? And I would say even before shame, I think there's tons of flavorings from insecurity, right? Uh huh. Because we are all insecure. We're all, like, not completely sure of our abilities and our worth in the world. We all have our moments where we, we, we hesitate, we question, we wonder if we're enough, we're doing the right thing, right? And then when the other, who may be distant from us, comes and, for their own reasons, tries to assert their, their knowledge, because they want to feel good about themselves and they don't know how to do it other than putting somebody else down, right, because then they feel like they're actually not, not bad, they're okay, right? Uh, then it all starts and Shane kicks in and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I also want to acknowledge that we are going to have those feelings sometimes and those thoughts and I'm gonna judge you, right? And say, I know, I know better than you kind of thing. But in that moment, have the decency to swallow it up and be a good human being and say, I'm thinking about that, but I'm not going to act on that. Right. Until we get to a point. Where I can work on no longer having those feelings, but, but it's like, we're going to have those feelings, but at the very least, from a social perspective, we got to make sure that we're not acting on those feelings. Right. Because I think that we're still far away from, from being in a place where we truly have the empathy that we talked about that you were mentioning. That is true. Right. But, but I think that the shame piece, like you say, is really important because. We also have to ask ourselves, why, why should I be shameful about this, right? Why does it matter what other people think? So there's all things that we can unpack from, from, from their piece. But there's a lot of stuff, like, there's a lot, there's a lot of outer work to be done, but there's a lot of inner work,

Edward Christie:

right? I, uh,

Flavio Zanetti:

I actually saw a quote from your wife, Nicole, if you're watching us, hello, that, uh, she wrote on, uh, social media. Uh, we cannot compete because I want you to succeed the moment we won the moment we won everybody to succeed, not only ourselves. I think it's the start of the, of the, of the change.

Dan Assisi:

A rising tide lifts all boats, right? It's a win win situation, which goes to the scarcity thing that, you know, you're talking about earlier today, Susana, we have this idea that there's only a limited amount of goodness or some, whatever it is out there. And then we've got to fight for each other with each other for that. But the truth is, you know, we can always been creating more things. So there is a, there is a point where maybe when we go back to the immortality of the soul, when we realize that we're more connected than we imagined, we stopped seeing each other as competitors and we really see, Hey. Today, you lift me up.

Flavio Zanetti:

Tomorrow, I'll lift you up. And vice versa. Right? Yeah. It's tough because the world is a little heavy. So if you want to lift us up, maybe the two of you.

Dan Assisi:

But here's the interesting thing, right? So now that we solved the world's problems almost, um, like what is, what is war good for? Because I think in the divine planning of the world, you can kind of say, you know what? This war is a failure, is a problem. Yes, it all to all of that. These are choices that were made and they're helpful. But is there something that we can learn from

Edward Christie:

war? Oh, sure. Yeah, I mean, war, to me, is, it's a clear indication that there's something been bubbling inside of us for a long time. Because it, people would never give in to something. I, I really, truly believe that. Maybe I'm too optimistic about human nature, but I can't imagine that people would be willing to destroy without some, something that's going on inside. So people push down, push down, push down, push down, and eventually, That, um, that surfaces in some way. So, so if it comes to that point, if it's really a war, that's the time to look inside and say, how, how did it come to this?

Dan Assisi:

That's a good point. Like, nobody wakes up and says, you know, I had a wonderful day yesterday. I'm not going to go to war today.

Edward Christie:

Yeah. Right? I just wanted to kill a bunch of people. Who, who are

Dan Assisi:

we going to beat up today, right? So I think you got a really great

Flavio Zanetti:

point. But there are some, there are some societal benefits sometimes with war. For example, penicillin. Penicillin was invented after the second world war. Yes. Right? So there, there are a few things. But the question that I have is, would they justify all the atrocities? That happened

Dan Assisi:

from wars. They may not but given that they these atrocities have happened and we cannot change them Can't go back What can we do right? And I think that we read in the wonderful and wise answer by the spirits to that question of war in the spirits book That war helps us I think I'm going to just, you know, paraphrase, but he helps us be aware that things are not okay and realize that we need to go forward faster than we were before. Listen, we are moving forward as a planet, as a society. We can say that, right? I truly believe this. But we've got to move a little bit faster, right? Because we're not making the progress that we give ourselves credit for. There's a lot to

Flavio Zanetti:

change. I think we've made and we're still making a lot of technological progress everywhere. The area that we're not making a lot of progress is when it comes to ethics and morals and those things. I think we're still on the application of the knowledge. Yeah. So, which is great that we have all these inventions that are enabling us to, for example, sit here and have a conversation and that being broadcasted, you know, tomorrow with the entire world, which is awesome. What are some of the things that we can leverage the technology? To make not only us better, but humanity better overall.

Dan Assisi:

That's a great question. I think that as we approach the beginning of the end No! I know, it goes fast. It goes fast. Um, I think it's great for us to start thinking about that. So what kind of actions, what kind of takeaways do we take with us from these situations? And how can each one of us Um, make a difference,

Suzana Simões:

right? Yeah, I go back, I go back to what I said because I think that it's so easy to, to think and to assume that war is someone else's problem. You know, I think that, and we were also talking about this a little earlier today, sometimes it's necessary for, Things to get this horrific to be able to kind of catch our attention and stimulate us to, to, to do more. You know, so out of these horrible things, agreements, uh, happen, people are mobilized at the administration, governmental level, but we, we need to, to also be shaken and take responsibility and seek to do our part, whether it is, um, you know, You know, working, I mean, one of the, the, the greatest things, uh, that we can do in this lifetime is to become better at relating. So, you know, how do we do that, right? So, with inner work, with self knowledge, understanding of like, you know, I'm angry, I want to kill this person. So, you have to be curious about. What is beneath the anger what is fueling that anger so Start to to be curious to ask questions to be proactive to take responsibility And as much as possible um, try not to be someone who is Fomenting, uh, the war, you know, uh, be the end of it. Don't, don't fuel conversations that bring separation, that brings more hostility. So those are small, but not such small things that I think we can start doing. Because people get very anxious about like, you know, what can I do? You know, and they feel very powerless. But it's not true. We do have power. There are things that we can do

Dan Assisi:

and I, you know, I'm not going to add much that i'm a hundred percent in agreement with you And I think that's how you act locally, right? I think that um You know, peace is not the absence of conflict, it's the resolution of conflict, right? In a way, that's great. And so it's not about also not addressing the issues or not talking with people about the challenges we have. That's negligence. That's not peace. That's negligence. That's a great point, right? But it's, it's, it's coming together and realizing that we do have individual work on conflict resolution, communication, and all the stuff that we need to do because clearly it's not working out great. Right. Um, and before I pass it on to Flavio, I should have said this a long time ago. I want to do a shout out to Renan out in the UK. I was in the UK doing a talk in Burnmouth. Renan, thanks for visiting us, like South, um, Southwestern UK. Uh, get a listener from Spirits of Conversation that wants to come and say hello and say, Whoa, great. Um, you know, he came out, he came by and he said hello. And then, you know what the first question he asked me was after that? Is Flavio really always that loud? And I said, yes, you should see how we have to edit his audio levels. Today, you're very not loud at all. So. Um, so thank you right now for calling that, bringing

Flavio Zanetti:

that to it. Maybe we're going to call me to ask me not to be loud today. So we're not a big shout out to you. Thanks for listening and watching us. We have one follower. Yay. We're getting there. Other than your mom. Other than my mom, well, she's falling from the spiritual, spiritual world. But, uh, I'd like to say that for us parents, we have to make sure that we are properly educating our kids, as I said before, to embrace diversity. Because if we don't do that, There's a small conflict at home, maybe in our neighborhoods, maybe a bullying in school because somebody else is different in school than they are, than we are. If we don't do that, if we don't start in our bases, in our homes, the world's not gonna change. Yeah, we cannot change what's happening in the Middle East right now, or what's happening, you know, in Ukraine and Russia. That's way too, or far too removed from that. But we have to start changing ourselves. When we look, for example, at situations that sometimes are tainting towards one side versus another. Let's take a step. Hang on, hang on. Let's look at this from a, from a both, both sides perspective. Try to find, you know, information that really can compare notes on both sides. Because war, nobody wins. You may believe you win, but you also lose. So nobody's right. That's another point, right? Nobody's ever right. Because doing something wrong, Right. Something, something's done, something wrong is done to you. Does not give you the right to do something wrong to somebody else, right? Two wrongs. I guess what I'm trying to say is two wrongs doesn't make a right. So that's what I, you know, like to

Edward Christie:

call out. And, and to follow on what you're saying, and also what Susanna was saying, you know, being curious and being open. We have a lot of opinions. I mean, we, we have an, an opinion about everything, really. We have opinions about having opinions. Yeah, right. And those opinions are really a way of shutting down curiosity. Because I think this is the way this, this, this side should win in the war, or these people are right and those people are wrong. And really not knowing about that, that really shuts us down, uh, from learning about ourselves and, uh, and also from remaining curious.

Dan Assisi:

And that's maybe a great place to end our conversation there, but before we do that, Edward, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's your first time with us. Yes. We love having you. We appreciate your Your thoughtfulness, your great energy you bring to all conversations, even though we don't always record them. Um, and for the beautiful music and art that you come and, uh, the thoughtful, you know, um, intentional, uh, thinking that you often do when it comes to religion, things in general. Uh, so with that in mind, tell us a little bit about where, uh, where folks can find you if they want to know more about you, because I'm sure you're going to love their attention.

Edward Christie:

Find

Flavio Zanetti:

me. All of our thousands of followers are going to go after you now.

Edward Christie:

I don't know. I'm not, I'm not on any social media, so I, I wouldn't know how, um, okay. Contact

Dan Assisi:

you. Contact Dan. Okay.

Flavio Zanetti:

Let us know. We can, we can, we can, we can, we can get through Edward.

Edward Christie:

Yes. They'll, they'll figure out where I am. You'll figure out where I am. Um,

Dan Assisi:

thanks for being with us. Thank you for inviting me. And thank you, uh, Flavio and Susanna for a wonderful seven years of impromptu. Infrequent, but

Flavio Zanetti:

unscripted, unscripted,

Dan Assisi:

off the cuff,

Suzana Simões:

right? It's

Dan Assisi:

working out. Listen, we have no plans for world domination. We are not trying to crank out stuff on a schedule because it doesn't always happen that way. These are meant to be real conversations for important topics. And if you did like any of you want to be part of our conversation, you can follow us on YouTube. You can follow, uh, you know, listen to as a podcast and whatever. Podcast platform you would like best when you're driving, when you are walking the dog or what have you, and of course you can follow us on social media as well. We just want to thank you for, for being there. And if you want to know more about different things that we do connect with us again, thanks for being here. We also want to give a shout out to our friend. Marcello today.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah,

Dan Assisi:

Marcello, we basically co opted to last minute to help us figure this thing out. So thank you so very much, sir, um, for, for being with us and helping, uh, behind the scenes, figure things out. Thanks everybody. This has been a Spiritist Institute production. We hope that you've enjoyed it. Check us out and, and we hope to see you in the next

Flavio Zanetti:

conversation. And thank you to our sponsors whenever they come.