Lessons From the Pandemic

Almost two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, what higher lessons have we learned?

Dan, Suzana, and Flavio stop to reflect on mental health, virtual meetings, self-sufficiency, fear of death, and more.

Transcript
Dan Assisi:

Welcome everyone to another edition of Spiritist Conversations.

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A show where we sit down with friends to talk about things through

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a spiritist lens, an informal unscripted and unplugged way.

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Today, we are going to look back in time and think about the lessons

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from the pandemic that we have all learned over these past two years.

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And to do that, I have the people who really make the show fun.

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I have Flavio and Susanna here with us today, so I want to bring

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them so that we can all say hello.

Dan Assisi:

Hi guys, how are you guys doing?

Suzana Simões:

Hi Dan.

Suzana Simões:

Hi Flavio.

Suzana Simões:

Good to see you guys.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah, doing fantastic, Dan and Suzana, It's always a

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pleasure to see you guys here live.

Dan Assisi:

Well, can you guys believe it?

Dan Assisi:It's December already of:Dan Assisi:

going to be in a whole new year.

Flavio Zanetti:

2022.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yes.

Suzana Simões:

Ubelievable.

Flavio Zanetti:

Time flies when you're having fun.

Suzana Simões:

Oh, when you were in a world of trial and

Suzana Simões:

expiation then really flies.

Dan Assisi:

I'm just going to go with it flies when you're getting old.

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But anyways, getting old is a mandatory growing up is optional.

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So I'm going to maintain my youthfulness, at least cling onto it

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and believe that we're going to be ok.

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, but it's great to be with you guys here.

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And I couldn't think of a better team to reflect a little bit about what these

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past two years basically have looked like.

Dan Assisi:Ever since March of, I think:Dan Assisi:

This new pandemic that has brought us anxiety has brought us fear and of course

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has brought us a lot of hurt because we have lost people, we have worried

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about people, and it has really shifted the way we think about things, so I

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think that it will take a little bit of time for us to really figure things

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out, still, about what is it all mean?

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And from a bigger historical perspective, but I wonder, if there's

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an opportunity for us to talk a little bit about what are the things that

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we have learned from the pandemic.

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What are the lessons that we can take away from more of a spiritual perspective?

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What are you guys think?

Suzana Simões:

Yeah, perhaps that we are still learning, as you

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said, it's an ongoing process.

Suzana Simões:

So I know Flavio was ready to jump in, but since I have the word, I will share

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my initial thoughts, which I'm going to actually start from where we are

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right now, right within the pandemic.

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I was just having a conversation with my wife this week as we were having

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breakfast and reading the paper about the new variant and we were discussing

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an article that talk about the discrepancies with the vaccination and

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what happens when we leave someone behind.

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And I don't think this is the goal of our conversation to go into, what went on that

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an entire country was like left behind.

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But the fact is that I was talking to her and said, if this is not a lesson

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to be learned, that can be translated to every single aspect of our daily lives

Suzana Simões:

where if we want to be well healthy and happy, we cannot do it alone.

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So we have to include everyone.

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So our neighbor needs to be seen us an extension of us the same way

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we see that in our family, like our brother and sister, if he or she is

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in need , or our parents, we go out of our way because it is our family.

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And we don't call that charity, we call that our natural duty to attend to the

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needs of those who we consider ours.

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So what the pandemic is showing us, one of the things is that every one is

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ours and we must expand this concept of family to every single person, because we

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are all brothers and sisters under God.

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And it's not about being charitable.

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It's about penny to our human duty and recognizing that every single person

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in this planet is deserving of the same level of attention, the same level of

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care, and this is the only way, together, not ever leaving anyone behind that.

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We'll get to a place where one day God willing, and God is willing, we'll call

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this planet a planet of regeneration.

Flavio Zanetti:

What I'm hearing Susanna from you is, I think

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we've touched this a little bit.

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When we talked about the Black Lives Matter episode of our conversations

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where we mentioned that there's a movement ran out in the world where

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we see folks testing to the fact that until the world is good for everybody,

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it's not a good world for anybody.

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And we call it an action for us to think about others, the

Flavio Zanetti:

way we think about ourselves.

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And if you look back, this is the utmost important message that Christ left for

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us to really think about our siblings our brothers and sisters, humanity in general,

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as we need an extension on our family.

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I think that's a very interesting point because it's several parts of history

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or, or we, how we're living right now, that's pointing us to that direction.

Flavio Zanetti:

That's how I saw and I want to compliment your comments.

Dan Assisi:

I love that.

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And I think that is a key piece to all of this, so I, I love that awareness

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and I love that way that you put it too.

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So it's not that it's a nice thing to do anymore.

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I think we're being show by nature, we have to care for each other.

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And I think that's one of the key lessons.

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I think we're learning that nobody wins until everybody wins.

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There is no individual victory over COVID.

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I like the fact that you might have survived COVID does not mean that you

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really are well or healthy, and happy.

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Cause our happiness, we're learning, has a lot to do with, of course who

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we are, but also making sure that the folks around us are okay too.

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So I think it's a really beautiful thing that we are going to continue

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to struggle with for awhile, right?

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Is this awareness that we've got to put aside our tribal thinking

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and saying only my people, only my family, only my friends, only

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my partner, that I care about.

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I want to worry about them.

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We have to worry about everything even because from a scientific perspective,

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and we're seeing this now, if we don't take care of everybody, in this pandemic,.

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If we don't vaccinate people, if we don't get people healthy, chances are

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this virus is going to continue to mutate and it's going to continue to

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haunt us for a little bit of time.

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So it's a collective effort for us to take care of all this stuff.

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So I think it's a beautiful lesson that I think we're struggling with

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for a little bit, we need to care for each other a little bit more

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than we have done in the past.

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And I think that's something that it bears repeating.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think it's even a hundred percent of what you said, Dan..

Flavio Zanetti:

But I think it's even beyond that, it's beyond my family.

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It's beyond my neighbor.

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It's beyond my city.

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It's beyond my country.

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It's the whole world, because we're all connected one way or the other.

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And if you don't care for those that are thousands and thousands of miles

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away, even though we don't have any relationship whatsoever, that

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may have an impact on us as well.

Flavio Zanetti:

That's the big lesson, that we all are getting from the pandemic.

Suzana Simões:

And what a challenge that is, because what that calls for

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is they need to see every single one as deserving of the same level of care and

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love, is to be able to see and to truly feel that every single life is worth

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saving and there is no difference and there is nothing that truly separates us.

Suzana Simões:

This is very different.

Suzana Simões:

This is very difficult.

Suzana Simões:

I'm sorry, when you're in this material world, separated by geographic

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limits, separated by cultures.

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And so to be able to transcend the material and to see each individual

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for who he or she truly is, the challenge that we have to exercise

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. Because I can, I will speak for myself.

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It's challenging for me, especially when you have someone who is so different

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culturally with ideas, with ideology to actually experience that person as truly

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equal and truly deserving and truly holy.

Suzana Simões:

So that's what we are called to do.

Suzana Simões:

And we can talk about this at a very general and far away from our reality

Suzana Simões:

or what we need to do is each one of us, as we realize those lessons is to see

Suzana Simões:

how challenging is for me, to leave this idea that I'm here talking to you guys.

Suzana Simões:

So I'm saying this, but I am fully aware that I am part of the problem.

Suzana Simões:

And so if we keep putting the problem outside of ourselves and

Suzana Simões:

waiting for the world to fix itself, we are not at the right path.

Suzana Simões:

It is ...How can I Suzana today, do my homework?

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Do what I need to do?

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Be at least minimally committed to do the work cause that's the first step,

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it is the awareness that you are part of the problem and their commitment, to be

Suzana Simões:

engaged in the work that is, that needs to be done starting from each one of us.

Flavio Zanetti:

But don't you think that we're a part of the problem

Flavio Zanetti:

but we're also part of the solution?

Suzana Simões:

Yeah, by all means, but I'm talking about the solution, but this

Suzana Simões:

solution start with the awareness that you are part of the problem, that is already

Suzana Simões:

the solution process being on its way.

Suzana Simões:

Yes.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

And there's something else I think to this too, that it's very related, but

I think it's nice to pull apart too:

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the pandemic has also been a glaring

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reminder that we're not self-sufficient.

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That each one of us, that we need each other, we were talking about this a

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little bit about helping each other, but it's also about meeting each other

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and understanding that our society has been told us that, the really

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great people, they don't need anybody.

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They're self-sufficient, they can live on their own, but that's not the case.

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Our lives are deeply connected and what you do over there, affects me.

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And what I do over here affects you.

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And generally we only think about what other people do and how it affects us.

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But I think what I'm hearing from Susanna and I wholeheartedly agree,

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is Hey, it's time to flip that script and say, what is it that I am doing?

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And how is it that is affecting other people?

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Because we cannot control what other people are going to do, we cannot

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control how it's going to affect us, but what we can control is

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what is it that we're going to do?

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What kind of role are we going to play in this new world that

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hopefully, I'm hoping, we're going to emerge to from the pandemic.

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This is an opportunity for us and maybe this is another lesson too.

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We have an opportunity to recreate what society and what the world looks.

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We can come out of this.

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We don't have to go back to the way things were before, the way we

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were behaving before our values, we can give ourselves a space and

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the chance to say, you know what?

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I am not going to do those things anymore.

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I think we're seeing a lot of that too.

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Like people are saying, Hey, I don't want that job anymore.

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I don't want, I want to work from home or I want to have a different lifestyle,

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or I want to spend more time with my family, because I've realized all of a

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sudden, that I couldn't spend this year and a half with my family, I couldn't

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see them, I might've lost people.

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What was I doing?

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I need to pay attention more to these things.

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So in a way it's a great, like a reawakening piece, when we realized

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that we are more interconnected than I think we give ourselves credit.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah.

Flavio Zanetti:

One thing that the defendant taught us and I read a piece by the

Flavio Zanetti:

Israeli historian Yuval, Harari.

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He mentioned, life he's actually moving to an online situation and we've all

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had to learn how to do things online.

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We're seeing our doctors through a computer screen out where we're studying,

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we're taking classes through our computer screen or are practicing religious

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engagements through a computer screen.

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We're all here.

Flavio Zanetti:

We've done this before many times, but I think that's one of the biggest challenges

Flavio Zanetti:

for a lot of folks, they were not really involved with any type of technology,

Flavio Zanetti:

they had to learn super quickly, how'd you do most things, in an online fashion.

Flavio Zanetti:

But then my question for us to talk about it is what are the

Flavio Zanetti:

repercussions of that situation?

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Suzana Simões:

And then I was just going to go back before moving forward

Suzana Simões:

with a Flavio, I didn't want to let it pass what Dan said in terms

Suzana Simões:

of the recreation of the world.

Suzana Simões:

Because I think that's one of the biggest lessons that we have learned,

Suzana Simões:

or at least one of the awareness that came out of it, which is has

Suzana Simões:

really forced us to reevaluate our priorities and to think about what is

Suzana Simões:

really important for each one of us.

Suzana Simões:

So I think the pandemic has forced us to to really, take a look at our families

Suzana Simões:

that, like you said, the distance and the importance of relationships

Suzana Simões:

and social engagement face-to-face.

Suzana Simões:

I recall like, being at some point very exhausted from the human

Suzana Simões:

conflicts at work at the center and getting to a point that it was like,

Suzana Simões:

okay, put me back in those calls.

Suzana Simões:

I want to see people again, I want life, it's not fun to be so isolated.

Suzana Simões:

And so it's just a.

Suzana Simões:

I just think, I don't want to let that girl, because I think it's

Suzana Simões:

a huge thing that has happened.

Suzana Simões:

And going back to Flavio, yeah, I think there another lesson is

Suzana Simões:

it has really pushed us forward.

Suzana Simões:

In terms of it's an Alliance between productivity, but also

Suzana Simões:

Quality of life.

Suzana Simões:

Exactly.

Suzana Simões:

So he, I am right.

Suzana Simões:

So right now I am, in my working day, I took a little break and my

Suzana Simões:

lunchtime to view with you guys.

Suzana Simões:

So you're getting this done and I don't have to go back to work.

Suzana Simões:

I have my computer here, as soon as they finish.

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Switch back to working.

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And so we are getting so much more done and at the same time I'm

Suzana Simões:

full and my father-in-law is here.

Suzana Simões:

So I can do so much that you can do right now that, before we weren't able

Suzana Simões:

really, or even aware that we could.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

And I love that and I think we can connect what Flavio said too, because

Dan Assisi:

no doubt, technology has been a very important part of this pandemic in my

Dan Assisi:

view, because like we always worried, we are always looking at what am I good at?

Dan Assisi:

What's going wrong.

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And what's the fear piece of the pandemic and so forth.

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But if we think for a second had this pandemic happened 10 years.

Dan Assisi:

It would have been much worse much because we would have been way more

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disconnected from people because we wouldn't have the opportunity to do

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the things that we're doing right now.

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Online meeting technology.

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Wasn't as great as it is today.

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It isn't as easy.

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So imagine how much more depressive or how much more despair we would

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have had in our lives, because we wouldn't be able to do these things.

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Like how many times have we during a pandemic and it picked up a phone and

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talk to people, but also them video calls.

Dan Assisi:

I've had happy hours.

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I have water cooler sessions with folks on video, just so that we can see each other.

Dan Assisi:

Yes, it was silly in the beginning, right?

Dan Assisi:

Everybody's in their own house and everybody put the time.

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Get her some drink or a snack or have dinner together.

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It seems silly, but we're learning that the human connection can happen in

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different ways and that's, pretty great.

Dan Assisi:

So in a roundabout way, what I want to say, I think Flavio's

Dan Assisi:

perspective is really great, but we also have to be thankful.

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This pandemic thing happened now.

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I think even when hard things come about, there are positive lessons that we can

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take away from that, and one of those is I'm glad that we have technology

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now to help us figure this stuff out.

Dan Assisi:

And people are, but I'm going to stop with the technology that we can go back to the

Dan Assisi:

quality of life, but Flavio you're going to chime in on the technology piece again?

Flavio Zanetti:

I think it's transformed how are we doing most things, even

Flavio Zanetti:

how we, for example experience our faith or when we get together to

Flavio Zanetti:

go to the spiritist center, when we study, I think the key point to

Flavio Zanetti:

me here is we have to be adaptable.

Flavio Zanetti:

Cause the world's always changing, it's always moving and the more adaptable

Flavio Zanetti:

we are, the easier it will be for us to overcome some of the hurdles

Flavio Zanetti:

. I look, for example, for opportunities to engage my colleagues, to learn, from the

Flavio Zanetti:

different things, through the technology.

Flavio Zanetti:

But I want to focus on the on the experience that we're gaining, but

Flavio Zanetti:

at the same time we may be missing, if we do everything online, I

Flavio Zanetti:

think what that pandemic taught us is that yes, it can be done.

Flavio Zanetti:

It's not one for one replacement, but you can still do most of what

Flavio Zanetti:

you were doing before face to face.

Flavio Zanetti:

You could still do it online.

Suzana Simões:

So are you asking, like with these gains what is that

Suzana Simões:

we are losing at the same time?

Flavio Zanetti:

So for example, before let's talk about spiritism, we have

Flavio Zanetti:

our meetings where we go and learn about the idea of spiritism we study

Flavio Zanetti:

with people, we gathered together.

Flavio Zanetti:

We have food together.

Flavio Zanetti:

Of course, through the pandemic, we all have to adapt to a different

Flavio Zanetti:

methodology because we could only get together with each other.

Flavio Zanetti:

Thankfully to Dan's point before, the pandemic is happening now, where

Flavio Zanetti:

technology is at a point our comfort level with technologies, a point

Flavio Zanetti:

that we can do these things now.

Flavio Zanetti:

But we're still right now replacing one for one that human interaction.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think the one misconception from the pandemic that I got is, oh,

Flavio Zanetti:

we can do everything remotely, everything virtually any reality,

Flavio Zanetti:

you can do most things, but nothing.

Flavio Zanetti:

We can replace six, right?

Flavio Zanetti:

The human interaction to get together, the spending time with others.

Flavio Zanetti:

And as I say, the best things in life are walking in a park with your loved

Flavio Zanetti:

one, maybe holding your kids' hands to do something with them, this human

Flavio Zanetti:

interaction, I think the pandemic taught us to give a lot more value to those,

Flavio Zanetti:

despite the fact that we were replacing some of that with technologic now.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

And I, but I might have a slightly unpopular opinion on this one.

Dan Assisi:

I'm going to run down for you guys.

Dan Assisi:

Yes.

Dan Assisi:

To all of that.

Dan Assisi:

But I think that another thing that I started to notice with myself

Dan Assisi:

too, is to realize that it's not just about human interaction.

Dan Assisi:

It is about quality human interaction, because I realized that during this

Dan Assisi:

pandemic that I had actually quite a bit of human interaction before the pandemic

Dan Assisi:

that I might not necessarily need.

Dan Assisi:

It was, I don't want to say superficial, but it was more of a level of things

Dan Assisi:

that weren't really necessarily bringing tons of value added to me.

Dan Assisi:

So I think the pandemic has no doubt has left me wanting right.

Dan Assisi:

For more human interaction.

Dan Assisi:

That's.

Dan Assisi:

But I've realized that I want more quality human interaction.

Dan Assisi:

It's not about hanging out with 30 people anymore.

Dan Assisi:

It's about spending time with two or three people where I can

Dan Assisi:

go deeper and make more of that connection that kind of lifts myself.

Dan Assisi:

So I think that this this break, even then we had our spirits as institutions,

Dan Assisi:

for instance, where we could do online while we couldn't do in person piece

Dan Assisi:

,is a good reminder for us to ask us.

Dan Assisi:

What is it that we really want?

Dan Assisi:

And this was one of the things that I really like to go back to it, to JC right.

Dan Assisi:

To Jesus when people approached him and it seems such an educator, he

Dan Assisi:

often said, what would you have me do?

Dan Assisi:

Or what do you want of me?

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And I think that in a way, the pandemic is giving us that clarity and

Dan Assisi:

asking you, what do you really want?

Dan Assisi:

You thought you wanted to have that group of 40 people where you go talk a

Dan Assisi:

little bit with people and you don't add anything to your life, really meaningful.

Dan Assisi:

And that's okay.

Dan Assisi:

You can have that sometimes, but is that what you want for your entire life?

Dan Assisi:

Do you want that level of connection or do you seek

Dan Assisi:

something deeper with fewer people?

Dan Assisi:

Sometimes too?

Dan Assisi:

I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer.

Dan Assisi:

I'm saying it has led me to think, when do I want to watch

Dan Assisi:

and how am I acting in that way?

Dan Assisi:

And so for instance, these conversations that are a good example, I love talking

Dan Assisi:

with your guys on the staff and I, I wonder if there's a shift to where we're

Dan Assisi:

doing in spiritism in general, less talks and more conversations for us

Dan Assisi:

to do our study groups and meetings..

Suzana Simões:

I want to add something to what you said.

Suzana Simões:

We know that yes, the pandemic did help us a lot in terms of realizing

Suzana Simões:

the potential that we have to do so much online, but the world was very

Suzana Simões:

much aligned and social media has been with us for a good while now.

Suzana Simões:

And yet we live in a world where the levels of depression are

Suzana Simões:

extremely high in the level of loneliness has never be so high.

Suzana Simões:

So it comes to, along with what it's not really about connecting.

Suzana Simões:

Connection online I think it has its place, it has its function,

Suzana Simões:

but we will never ever substitute the quality the relationships that

Suzana Simões:

are face to face and particularly the need to have relationships

Suzana Simões:

that are quality relationships.

Suzana Simões:

And then in science backs us up on that too.

Suzana Simões:

The research shows that, at the bottom line, what makes people happy it's

Suzana Simões:

nothing that the material world give us.

Suzana Simões:

It is connections, but it's not the number of connections.

Suzana Simões:

It is precisely the quality of connections.

Suzana Simões:

Exactly, going back to Flavio, that's the loss that maybe it was important

Suzana Simões:

to lose, to realize, how we need to invest in humans, in relationship.

Suzana Simões:

We can we can be happy without having meaningful relationships and the

Suzana Simões:

whole social media, the whole thing.

Suzana Simões:

It kind of grants more shallow related because we hide behind the camera.

Suzana Simões:

It's a lot of Showtime a lot of times in these interactions.

Dan Assisi:

Totally

Suzana Simões:

Showtime everybody putting their best the

Flavio Zanetti:

The best answers to all your problems, right?

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah.

Suzana Simões:

Yeah.

Suzana Simões:

As opposed to, okay.

Suzana Simões:

Let's have a real conversation here.

Suzana Simões:

So who are you?

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

And I love that because I think that goes to quality of life piece.

Dan Assisi:

I think that we are really, re-centering about, what's important to us, whether

Dan Assisi:

is the job, whether is the relationships, whether it's the connections.

Dan Assisi:

But I think I think that's there, but I want to also pick up on

Dan Assisi:

something that you said, Sue, because I think it's really great and I

Dan Assisi:

hope this is one of the legacies in a positive way of the pandemic.

Dan Assisi:

I think that the pandemic has exposed all the mental health issues that we all have.

Dan Assisi:

And I think it has made us more open to the idea that, oh, you know what,

Dan Assisi:

we need to work on that as a society.

Dan Assisi:

It's not just the problems with some people over others.

Dan Assisi:

And I think that one of the things that I hope that we learned from

Dan Assisi:

the pandemic is to take care of ourselves from a mental perspective.

Dan Assisi:

That is not just a, something that happens to some people, it's quite widespread.

Dan Assisi:

We have tons of challenges with it.

Dan Assisi:

Everybody has their own demons, so to speak, their own

Dan Assisi:

challenges to figure it out.

Dan Assisi:

And I'm finding that people are being a little bit more open to

Dan Assisi:

talk about it and to make time for that which is a positive thing.

Dan Assisi:

And hopefully we carry that with us.

Flavio Zanetti:

How can spiritism help?

Flavio Zanetti:

I think it's a pragmatic question we all must ask.

Dan Assisi:

Oh yeah, it's a great question and I think that's another lesson, may

Dan Assisi:

I jump it back in there too, which is at the core of the pandemic, at least

Dan Assisi:

the early stages of the pandemic, right?

Dan Assisi:

I think the unspoken elephant in the room, or should I say the virtual

Dan Assisi:

virus in the room was, we were afraid of, we didn't openly talk about this,

Dan Assisi:

but a lot of our actions were directly related with the fear of death.

Dan Assisi:

If it was not our fear of death for us, it was for our loved ones.

Dan Assisi:

Right?

Dan Assisi:

Guys, we hogged toilet paper.

Dan Assisi:

Remember, everybody's buying toilet paper and the Corona virus is

Dan Assisi:

not a gastrointestinal problem, but you know what I'm saying?

Dan Assisi:

Look at the level, look at what fear does to us.

Dan Assisi:

People rushed to buy toilet paper, where did that come from?

Dan Assisi:

That was just a fear that we had that toilet paper was going to end.

Dan Assisi:

And what if it did, we were not going to die?

Dan Assisi:

But anyways, my point is I think that the core of all this stuff was fear of death.

Dan Assisi:

And I think that remains largely unaddressed as a society as well, but

Dan Assisi:

where I think Spiritism can help us and has helped me personally throughout

Dan Assisi:

my life is to slowly erode or chip away at this fear of death, because

Dan Assisi:

I know now for a fact that I will die and when I do, I will not stop being,

Dan Assisi:

I will not cease to be who I am.

Dan Assisi:

And more importantly, in a way too those that I love should tomorrow

Dan Assisi:

they perish, they die of COVID 19, it will be heartbreaking.

Dan Assisi:

I will be sad, but I know it would not be the end of that.

Dan Assisi:

And I know that ,it's not that I believe, I know because Spiritism

Dan Assisi:

has showed us how mediumship works, how this interaction between worlds

Dan Assisi:

works, in our mediumistic meetings every week, basically in in a majority

Dan Assisi:

of spirits that centers throughout the planet, we see evidence of that.

Dan Assisi:

So if I am part of that meeting, if I am part of that, mediumistic exchange

Dan Assisi:

between worlds and I see the stories of people, I cannot be as anxious and

Dan Assisi:

worried about death as I was before, because now I have proof that our

Dan Assisi:

essence who we are, us, spirits survived.

Dan Assisi:

So I think that right on my way, spiritism has helped me take some of

Dan Assisi:

the fear of death away, which has made me be more present and less anxious

Dan Assisi:

about the whole pandemic thing.

Dan Assisi:

I'm still worried about it.

Dan Assisi:

Still taking my precautions.

Dan Assisi:

It doesn't make us careless.

Dan Assisi:

I wear masks, I got my vaccines in, I try to be helpful, I cleaned my hands,

Dan Assisi:

but I realized that should something happen, I lose a loved one or I pass over.

Dan Assisi:

I know it's not the end of things because I know it continues.

Dan Assisi:

So for me, it has been by far the biggest help the Spiritism has given me.

Dan Assisi:

Through the pandemic, dare I say, through my entire life, it has changed the way I

Dan Assisi:

behave and I act in many different ways.

Dan Assisi:

I'll do, I know there's a long way to go.

Dan Assisi:

And sometimes to an extent that I don't even realize, like sometimes

Dan Assisi:

I have to think about it and say, wow, 20 years ago, 30 years ago,

Dan Assisi:

I would have behaved completely different during this piece here.

Dan Assisi:

But now I'm a little bit mighty.

Dan Assisi:

So I think that's where I would say that's how Spiritism has helped

Dan Assisi:

me in the pandemic specifically.

Suzana Simões:

Yeah.

Suzana Simões:

I think that like Dan was saying it just put the whole mental or imbalances

Suzana Simões:

that we all have in the forefront.

Suzana Simões:

So all went up significantly with fear, with loss grieving depression, but also

Suzana Simões:

an incredible sense of powerlessness, being out of control, losing control of

Suzana Simões:

our lives and what we can or cannot do.

Suzana Simões:

So it's really hard to cope with all of these feelings.

Suzana Simões:

And I think we all experienced them to a greater or lesser extent,

Suzana Simões:

but a little bit of all of them was in the mix for all of us.

Suzana Simões:

And I think that was one thing that I had in my mind, as we opened the show,

Suzana Simões:

which was, what has that done to humanity as far as assist to reconnect with what

Suzana Simões:

is essential like spiritually speaking or, facilitating these way back towards

Suzana Simões:

the spirituality, Spiritism and God, whatever it might be for different people.

Suzana Simões:

So specifically I think that I was really called to put into practice.

Suzana Simões:

The faith and the understanding really like flat, think, and try to not make it

Suzana Simões:

such a cognitive experience, but really try to feel that there is a higher purpose

Suzana Simões:

for everything that the reason God in place, you know a universal intelligence,

Suzana Simões:

that there is a higher plan and really so meeting myself to this, which along

Suzana Simões:

with Dan, taking all the precautions, because submission to God's real, that

Suzana Simões:

is not me neglect or carelessness.

Suzana Simões:

We are to do our own part, but to understand that there is something much

Suzana Simões:

bigger, something that we don't see, something that we cannot understand being

Suzana Simões:

on the valley, we don't have the view of the top, but we will call to trust in,

Suzana Simões:

to surrendering, to do our parts on this big equation that is going on right now.

Suzana Simões:

So for me what spirits isn't helps is, I love the gospel chapter 2 item 3.

Suzana Simões:

What spiritism does is invite us always to climb the mountain and try

Suzana Simões:

to appreciate life from the top and not from the bottom, because then we have

Suzana Simões:

a much broader view of the situation.

Suzana Simões:

But even if we do so to the highest that we can go does not give us because we

Suzana Simões:

don't have the wings to fly that high yet.

Suzana Simões:

So our vision is always a partial vision of the reality.

Suzana Simões:

So it gets to a point that there's nothing else you can see, you have to trust,

Suzana Simões:

you have to surrender and you have to really take into consideration that.

Suzana Simões:

The world is not disorganized, it's actually being organized.

Suzana Simões:

We are not lost in abandoning chaos.

Suzana Simões:

On the contrary, these are being rearranged.

Suzana Simões:

There is a higher plan and a higher force that is actually working

Suzana Simões:

to make this whole situation a better situation for all of us.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah.

Flavio Zanetti:

A hundred percent.

Flavio Zanetti:

I agree.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think you said some great things.

Flavio Zanetti:

Before we were given some of the ideas or some of the thoughts, some of the

Flavio Zanetti:

concepts that there is divine justice.

Flavio Zanetti:

There is a God looking at looking over all of what we're doing right

Flavio Zanetti:

now, really guiding every step of the way, because we have free will, you

Flavio Zanetti:

learn through spiritism, but the world is moving towards a more just place.

Flavio Zanetti:

But then the pandemic came and the practical or the we learned a

Flavio Zanetti:

theory before, here's time for us to put that into practice.

Flavio Zanetti:

And that's how we were challenged by thoughts and our emotions

Flavio Zanetti:

were challenged, you know what trust everything will be fine.

Flavio Zanetti:

Trust.

Flavio Zanetti:

Do your part that everything will go moving through its place.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think having that mindset allowed us, or at least allowed me again to be for you

Flavio Zanetti:

guys, but allowed me to navigate through that pandemic, still very optimistic about

Flavio Zanetti:

the future ahead, still looking at the ladder, then the ethernal yes, this was

Flavio Zanetti:

gonna be a difficult step for everybody.

Flavio Zanetti:

But if we do our parts, we'll get out of this much stronger and much

Flavio Zanetti:

more prepared for the future ahead.

Flavio Zanetti:

That to me was the the massive lesson that I got from this of course,

Flavio Zanetti:

fear of death is huge and it's still something that bothers a lot of people.

Flavio Zanetti:

But the end of the day, having an idea that, yes, everything is under control.

Flavio Zanetti:

You should not worry about it.

Flavio Zanetti:

That's again, the message of Jesus has left us way back.

Flavio Zanetti:

it's the same message, but we just walked away from it, like in the last millennium.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

We've veered away a little bit from that, but I like both those

Dan Assisi:

perspectives and I like Susanna reminding us of the larger view.

Dan Assisi:

Because I think that's something that spiritism does well for

Dan Assisi:

us too, is to remind us that there is more than one lifetime.

Dan Assisi:

And I think the pandemic has definitely offered us this

Dan Assisi:

moment of pause and reflect.

Dan Assisi:

Right.

Dan Assisi:

It's kinda like the stop think.

Dan Assisi:

And listen, before you cross the train tracks, the stop

Dan Assisi:

listening and look kind of thing.

Dan Assisi:

And so I think that's all great, but it has also led me to believe that maybe

Dan Assisi:

this moment is not just important for this lifetime, but more after that.

Dan Assisi:

So I really liked that moment of reflection that we were talking about.

Dan Assisi:

And I really like that susanna also talked about faith is not about I'm

Dan Assisi:

going to paraphrase her a little bit.

Dan Assisi:

by saying faith is not about learn helplessness, right?

Dan Assisi:

It's not about saying, oh, I'm just going to trust and I'm not

Dan Assisi:

going to do anything quite yet.

Dan Assisi:

The reason why we are in this place is because we haven't done

Dan Assisi:

enough or we need to do more.

Dan Assisi:

So it's not about sitting and just waiting to see what happens is

Dan Assisi:

rolling up our sleeves and doing what we can, which is something that

Dan Assisi:

we talked about before, earlier.

Dan Assisi:

But this space to reflect, I don't know that we would have

Dan Assisi:

had it in our busy lives.

Dan Assisi:

Have we not had the pandemic.

Dan Assisi:

So while I understand that pandemic has caused a lot of challenge pain

Dan Assisi:

and, worry in general, one good thing from the pandemic, if I want

Dan Assisi:

to look at the good side of it, is that it has made us the space.

Dan Assisi:

It has made us okay to question our lives, and see if that's

Dan Assisi:

what we are really wanting to do.

Dan Assisi:

My work is what I want to do the time that I have with my family

Dan Assisi:

is not really what I want to do.

Dan Assisi:

How do I want to lead my life, and I don't know that we would have had that space

Dan Assisi:

to do it right, because we're so worried about what other people are going to think

Dan Assisi:

sometimes of us or what the perfect life should look like or what the perfect job.

Dan Assisi:

We have accepted these values from the outside world without questioning them.

Dan Assisi:

And I think in many different ways the pandemic has said, what does it matter

Dan Assisi:

for me to have a really nice bank account?

Dan Assisi:

If I don't get to spend time with my family, or if I have people in my

Dan Assisi:

family who are sick so I think that the moment of questioning it's a

Dan Assisi:

really hard one in that moment, right?

Dan Assisi:

When you're going through that crisis are really hard, but crisis are

Dan Assisi:

also moments of decision, is when we decide even the word, the word

Dan Assisi:

crisis comes from moments of decision.

Dan Assisi:

We've got to decide, how is it that we are going to act, what is it going to do?

Dan Assisi:

And so from that perspective, I'm, I am grateful.

Dan Assisi:

I want to even use, want to use that word, right?

Dan Assisi:

Because I also want to give myself permission to say, it's okay to be

Dan Assisi:

happy, even in moments of gloom, right?

Dan Assisi:

We all are going through tough moments, but we also have happy

Dan Assisi:

moments in this past two years.

Dan Assisi:

It's important for us to remember that so it's important to first or

Dan Assisi:

give ourselves permission to say yes, things are tough right now, but

Dan Assisi:

right now in this second I'm okay.

Flavio Zanetti:

I do see, I can't imagine people out there that might be

Flavio Zanetti:

listening to us or watching us live.

Flavio Zanetti:

Maybe thinking I can't be happy if I'm going through a lot of turmoil

Flavio Zanetti:

or if my going through all the gloom.

Flavio Zanetti:

How, How do we, what do we tell these people?

Flavio Zanetti:

What do we say to them?

Dan Assisi:

Yeah, no great point.

Dan Assisi:

Thank you for bringing that up.

Dan Assisi:

Great point.

Dan Assisi:

And I'm not saying that we are, we have to be happy, right?

Dan Assisi:

I'm saying we can give ourselves permission and that second to say

Dan Assisi:

in this moment right now, I'm okay.

Dan Assisi:

In this 10 seconds right now I'm ok.

Suzana Simões:

And also not feel guilty for feeling happy because it's okay.

Suzana Simões:

It's all right.

Suzana Simões:

A lot of people often will prevent themselves from feeling happy.

Suzana Simões:

They will mess up their own happiness because of these feelings of guilt.

Suzana Simões:

But I wanna I wanna also bring one more thing, cause I know can you just

Suzana Simões:

go back because you ran over that Dan called me, but I go back to it.

Suzana Simões:

So he was talking about the fear of that.

Suzana Simões:

And I think along with that, here we are spiritist.

Suzana Simões:

So the bottom line is we are immortals and yet we are afraid of dying and we

Suzana Simões:

have a lot of feelings related to dying.

Suzana Simões:

So COVID by taking so many material lives, threwing in our face the

Suzana Simões:

vulnerability of this life, which is something that we don't think so often.

Suzana Simões:

We live honestly even as immortal as if we're going to be here

Suzana Simões:

forever, some of us, some of us, you still have a difficult time.

Suzana Simões:

And I think I have mentioned that I dunno if he's in a lecture or the conversation,

Suzana Simões:

but It's a taboo to talk about dying.

Suzana Simões:

People.

Suzana Simões:

Don't even want to talk about it.

Suzana Simões:

If you say let's talk about what you want for the end-of-life.

Suzana Simões:

So we, I think we did have this conversation before people were like

Suzana Simões:

why do you want to talk about that?

Suzana Simões:

Why not?

Suzana Simões:

Why not?

Dan Assisi:

If we can't just avoid it, it doesn't happen.

Suzana Simões:

It won't ever happen.

Suzana Simões:

And so we so what coffee did he say, Hey, listen, it can happen at any time.

Suzana Simões:

You know what I mean?

Suzana Simões:

And he takes something that's small and invisible to knock it down and to

Suzana Simões:

end what seems to be such a powerful existence, you know, and guess what?

Suzana Simões:

There's no pattern.

Suzana Simões:

You can be a marathon runner, super healthy, you can be young, you

Suzana Simões:

can be old and frail and survive.

Suzana Simões:

So there's no logic for it.

Suzana Simões:

How do you, what do you do now?

Suzana Simões:

Because if there was logic would say, no, we got it.

Suzana Simões:

We now understand exactly how it happens, what is the population that is being

Suzana Simões:

what we're going to treat that then comes a virus that makes no sense at all.

Suzana Simões:

There was no like, I'm good.

Suzana Simões:

You don't know it can be anyone at anytime anywhere.

Suzana Simões:

So I think that was one of the big things is really like a reminder that

Suzana Simões:

this is a brief state for all of us.

Flavio Zanetti:

We just have to cherish as we're here.

Flavio Zanetti:

Every single moment.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think one thing that we didn't really say or mention, at least I didn't

Flavio Zanetti:

really hear that, is the fact that it's really important for us to live

Flavio Zanetti:

the moment that we're living, right?

Flavio Zanetti:

The whole idea of mindfulness, or really being thankful for what we have and being

Flavio Zanetti:

happy at the moment they were happy.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yes, there's a lot of issues out there, but the difficulty is not

Flavio Zanetti:

there, but right now I'm actually content to you because I'm healthy.

Flavio Zanetti:

My family's healthy.

Flavio Zanetti:

I'm still employed.

Flavio Zanetti:

I have a roof over my head.

Flavio Zanetti:

I can meet, a nice meal, mean there's small things that are not so small for

Flavio Zanetti:

a lot of people that made us reflect a lot and living the present moment

Flavio Zanetti:

was something that I believe was the big calling from that pandemic.

Flavio Zanetti:

People were leaving for the future, right?

Flavio Zanetti:

It's not very difficult to see folks working multiple jobs and try to

Flavio Zanetti:

acumulate a lot of wealth and all of a sudden newness comes and the person

Flavio Zanetti:

who doesn't really enjoy their wealth.

Flavio Zanetti:

Happens, more often than not the pandemic gave us a hang on a sec, Do you really

Flavio Zanetti:

need all that or maybe it's time spend more time with I think that, to me, it

Flavio Zanetti:

was a big calling that comes back from us.

Flavio Zanetti:

Again.

Flavio Zanetti:

I want to bring Jesus again, that we should cherish the treasures

Flavio Zanetti:

that the moth can eat and the steel that they think you can steal.

Flavio Zanetti:

So when we look at that most, most important treasures are in

Flavio Zanetti:

a, what we do with others, our friends, or family, or loved.

Flavio Zanetti:

And I think that's, to me, it's the biggest call and I believe

Flavio Zanetti:

we just start wrapping up because the time is running out.

Flavio Zanetti:

But to me that's a key point that I want to show is we speak about it

Flavio Zanetti:

before we dropped from today's session.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

So quick recap.

Dan Assisi:

So we started talking about how nobody wins until everybody wins.

Dan Assisi:

We've talked about also the realization that we are more self-dependent than we

Dan Assisi:

expected, we're not, as self-sufficient.

Dan Assisi:

We've talked about what we really want re-centering, refocusing,

Dan Assisi:

and thinking about what is it that we really want from this life?

Dan Assisi:

We've talked about mental health awareness and we talked about faith

Dan Assisi:

and you're putting it in practice.

Dan Assisi:

So these are all things that are very important and they're monumental, right?

Dan Assisi:

They're important things.

Dan Assisi:

And so from all of this, What do you, what do you guys take away from the pandemic?

Dan Assisi:

What do you take away from the show today and what do you

Dan Assisi:

take away from the pandemic?

Dan Assisi:

As it continues to evolve and change our lives,

Suzana Simões:

I'm going to be very present in this moment and I'm going

Suzana Simões:

to say that I take away gratitude for the show that and being able to say to

Suzana Simões:

myself, Yeah, work is important, but I'm going to open a window and meet

Suzana Simões:

these guys and through these wonderful technology that allow us to do that

Suzana Simões:

in three different states in this country and at the same time gratitude

Suzana Simões:

normally, because we can do that, but also for having both of you in my life.

Suzana Simões:

And although we are not talking on a daily basis, I know that these quality

Suzana Simões:

of relations that I have, that if I need anything, and I'm always following you

Suzana Simões:

guys and having these relationships in my life is something that I am grateful for.

Suzana Simões:

So I think that the word is always what a gratitude.

Suzana Simões:

I want to say thank you both for inviting me to be here today and that I

Suzana Simões:

have a challenging schedule sometimes.

Suzana Simões:

And but you don't give up on me.

Suzana Simões:

So I'm so that truly to do, because I few nourished appreciation.

Suzana Simões:

That's great.

Suzana Simões:

I feel nourished by our conversation.

Suzana Simões:

And so here we are, this conversation is a result of the pandemic, our relationships,

Suzana Simões:

these workspace conversation.

Suzana Simões:

That's it.

Suzana Simões:

I want to end on a very personal note.

Flavio Zanetti:

So we thank you for putting up with us.

Flavio Zanetti:

That's what we do

Dan Assisi:

putting up with Flavio.

Dan Assisi:

We know that Flavia was the really drag of the show here.

Dan Assisi:

So a difficult one

Flavio Zanetti:

as we know.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah.

Flavio Zanetti:

But right through a hundred percent is phenomenal.

Flavio Zanetti:

Right?

Flavio Zanetti:

One of the, one of the successes for a fulfilled life or life fuel fulfillment,

Flavio Zanetti:

if I can say that, is gratitude.

Flavio Zanetti:

It's a life filled with granted.

Flavio Zanetti:

The more we feel, the more we practice gratitude, the happier,

Flavio Zanetti:

more fulfilled lives, all it.

Flavio Zanetti:

And your,

Suzana Simões:

So, I guess the pandemic also taught us that, right?

Suzana Simões:

To appreciate things to pay attention to things that, perhaps

Suzana Simões:

would be going notice and With more attention on our daily blessings.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

100%, 100%.

Dan Assisi:

So now I'll go next and Flavia can come in at the end Flavio if that's okay with you.

Dan Assisi:

100% of what Susanna said, I, and I want to take that specific piece

Dan Assisi:

and make it a general conclusion.

Dan Assisi:

Yes, because yes, quality of relations.

Dan Assisi:

What's really important to you.

Dan Assisi:

Making time to think about myself beyond the physical is I think something that the

Dan Assisi:

pandemic really helped me with because he has prevented me from traveling as much

Dan Assisi:

from doing all the different things that I was doing before, which gave me more time

Dan Assisi:

for reflection in many different ways.

Dan Assisi:

And so this show, talking with your guys and everything else has

Dan Assisi:

made me try to spend more time.

Dan Assisi:

Self and what is it that I really want to do?

Dan Assisi:

I think some of them, you guys know, I even done professional

Dan Assisi:

changes, so I could have more time.

Dan Assisi:

For me to do the things that I want, which is to spend more time thinking about this.

Dan Assisi:

So I'm grateful for this difficult two years will have completely changed my my.

Dan Assisi:

For the better, in many different ways.

Dan Assisi:

And I'm really grateful for that and for these relationships.

Dan Assisi:

And so I'm grateful that that I obviously have you guys, so we can have this

Dan Assisi:

relationship that we can have the space to talk about things that really matter.

Dan Assisi:

And I think that's such an important thing for me.

Dan Assisi:

I need that space to talk about things that lift me and carry

Dan Assisi:

me on a few or me to keep doing whatever it is that I want to do.

Dan Assisi:

And recenter me, help me give me the moment to really think

Dan Assisi:

what is it that I really want?

Dan Assisi:

What is it that's really important to me.

Dan Assisi:

So I'm grateful for the pandemic for that grateful for you guys for that

Dan Assisi:

as well, to be my my thinking buddies here to put me during all this things.

Dan Assisi:

So thank you.

Dan Assisi:

And thank you for all the folks also, who are listening to us who send

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us messages, who sent us comments.

Dan Assisi:

It's really humbling.

Dan Assisi:

It's really lovely to see people from different places we just saw.

Dan Assisi:

Elsa Rossi from the UK chiming in, we have folks from all different parts

Dan Assisi:

of the world, sending us messages and being part of our conversations too.

Dan Assisi:

Is really great.

Dan Assisi:

Shout out to people out in Macau.

Dan Assisi:

For instance, we found out that Spiritist Conversations

Dan Assisi:

it's in the, more, most shows in Macau and it's pretty cool stuff

Dan Assisi:

that that we're really foreclosed.

Dan Assisi:

So thank you.

Dan Assisi:

Thank you for that.

Dan Assisi:

I'm grateful for that too.

Dan Assisi:

Flavio.

Flavio Zanetti:

It's the same grade in grade two ahead.

Flavio Zanetti:

I want to thank you both for being our partners do non-prime does think

Flavio Zanetti:

while we're doing here is really stuck and help a person or two out there.

Flavio Zanetti:

That's listening to us either live or later on.

Flavio Zanetti:

Yeah.

Flavio Zanetti:

Gratitude is huge.

Flavio Zanetti:

The pandemic thought of swimming lessons.

Flavio Zanetti:

I think everyone was going to have their own way.

Flavio Zanetti:

But at the end of the day, it's a call for us to look at ourselves.

Flavio Zanetti:

Not only this body that we have, but our spiritual beings, the things

Flavio Zanetti:

that really matter in our lives, the friendships, the family, the time we

Flavio Zanetti:

spent together, the quality of the relationships, our connectionwith

Flavio Zanetti:

God however, you practice that.

Flavio Zanetti:

However, we do that right through a church or through a group

Flavio Zanetti:

of people or through a book.

Flavio Zanetti:

Our connection with God is more, it's more strongly than ever these things.

Flavio Zanetti:

He's really, these things are really the best lessons that

Flavio Zanetti:

we'll hear from them pandemic.

Flavio Zanetti:

And it's not gonna stop there.

Flavio Zanetti:

W as the world continues to evolve, as we continue to grow as spiritual

Flavio Zanetti:

beings that we are, we'll continue to learn more things to better

Flavio Zanetti:

prepare ourselves for the future.

Flavio Zanetti:

Andy, on a very positive note, we all we all have a lot to be thankful, right?

Flavio Zanetti:

That's what.

Dan Assisi:

Wonderful.

Dan Assisi:

Thank you, Flavio.

Dan Assisi:

Thank you, Suzanne.

Dan Assisi:

And this is the part of the show where traditionally, when we have

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a guest, we ask them about sharing some of their projects or how

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we can get in touch with them.

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We don't have a guest today, just the three of us.

Dan Assisi:

So I figured we would improvise and as Susanna.

Dan Assisi:

Susanna, tell us a little bit how people can get in touch with you.

Dan Assisi:

I know that you have a Facebook page, you have a YouTube channel.

Dan Assisi:

Tell us a little bit about how people can connect with you and social media,

Dan Assisi:

if they want to follow what you're doing, but you got to come off from your first.

Suzana Simões:

Yeah.

Suzana Simões:

So we have the YouTube channel so there's other some way 70.

Suzana Simões:

So you can find oh, our lectures and participations.

Suzana Simões:

I also share these conversations during the YouTube channel.

Suzana Simões:

So all work can be found at that channel.

Suzana Simões:

And also at least the ground, same thing, Susanna, Simone, one 70.

Dan Assisi:

Yeah.

Dan Assisi:

So shout out to Susan and all the work she's doing.

Dan Assisi:

If you want to connect with her, go ahead.

Dan Assisi:

Find her on social media.

Dan Assisi:

She's done something to make our life easier.

Dan Assisi:

She has the same handle, the same username in different places, which I love.

Dan Assisi:

You don't need to be creative people with your social media channels.

Dan Assisi:

Just keep it the same so we can find.

Dan Assisi:

So follow her a morning, sit seven, and for all of you guys out there we

Dan Assisi:

love to have you continue to follow us.

Dan Assisi:

We'll have another show at the end of December.

Dan Assisi:

It's going to be an interesting one.

Dan Assisi:

We're planning I think it fro the 16th of December and it's calling

Dan Assisi:

follow Christ, not the Christians.

Dan Assisi:

Ha look at that.

Dan Assisi:

We're going to let them hair, we can a little bit, we're going to talk

Dan Assisi:

about Christianity in crisis since.

Dan Assisi:

The Christmas is coming up and how's that slightly different sometimes.

Dan Assisi:

And most people imagined.

Dan Assisi:

So we are really grateful to have you here.

Dan Assisi:

Don't forget to listen to us.

Dan Assisi:

Subscribe to us.

Dan Assisi:

We're also very creative with our names, spirit.

Dan Assisi:

This conversation's all social media.

Dan Assisi:

That's what our name is.

Dan Assisi:

Thank you one more time for listening and we hope to see you soon.